I just emailed the organizer to check which one it should be- April 16th is the date they gave me in the form. If you're with the organizers, can you let Daniel or Jiri know to tell me which date is correct?
What does it mean that the Channel Islands are listed separately to the UK? Is Scott finicky about the difference between Dependent Territories and the UK proper? Or is this a subtle signal of Norman revanchism?
Looking them up, the Channel Islands are not part of the UK:
"The Channel Islands fall into two separate self-governing bailiwicks, the Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Bailiwick of Jersey. Each of these is a British Crown Dependency, and neither is a part of the United Kingdom. They have been parts of the Duchy of Normandy since the 10th century, and Queen Elizabeth II was often referred to by her traditional and conventional title of Duke of Normandy. However, pursuant to the Treaty of Paris (1259), she governed in her right as The Queen (the "Crown in right of Jersey", and the "Crown in right of the république of the Bailiwick of Guernsey"), and not as the Duke. "
If we're going to be this finicky, the UK part should really be changed to GB, as there is no meet-up for Northern Ireland, all are being held on "the mainland" as some refer to it - most in England, one in Scotland.
Hi, Meetup Czar who compiled the list here. When I saw the volunteer for Channel Islands I asked the organizer if that was in the UK, they said no, and I usually assume the person who lives there knows better than I do. The alternative is even more Americanisms than you all already put up with
The inclusion of Russia and other non-EU countries without a comment would seem to indicate that the author was aware that the EU is not the same thing as Europe. So then I thought maybe it was because islands aren't part of Europe proper, but then I saw that Ireland was included without a comment, so 🤷
Same with Britain, it feels closer to the USA (and perhaps Canada and Australia as Commonwealth countries) than to Continental Europe due to common culture.
If we really want to have a fight over geographical versus spiritual, we could start in on the British Isles 😁
I wonder if the ancient Greeks had such discussions, saying Attica isn't really that European, considering all the ties to the colonies on the other side of the Aegean – or if this might be a uniquely British innovation.
On the other hand, it seems the Australians are embracing their European heritage by participating in the Eurovision. Perhaps some of the other colonies could also be brought back into the fold – a Celine Dion comeback for Canada would surely be a success.
As I recall, the Athenians were ethnically Ionian, like most of the islanders. But the rest of the mainland was largely ethnically Dorian, having come down and conquered or displaced the Ionians (except for the Athenians).
As I commented last year (and also spoke to you in person about), the relevant layer of sorting for this listing is almost certainly *constituent countries* (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). There are also counties/shires/etc but no non-Brits would know about them off the top of their heads.
Scott gave the numbers for previous meetups in a recent post. The average number for non-Paris events in France is approximately two. This, along with the fact that my nearest meetup is a five hour drive away is why I'll be declining again this year. Oh, and of course I have a negative attitude towards rationalism..
English speaking college towns or tech centres tend to do well. One wrinkle is that the smaller the city, the more likely people will come from farther away, which means there isn't a clear and obvious answer for the relevant population of the city.
Oh if you want to scoop me go ahead, I keep getting nerd-sniped and have no timeline on when that post is coming out.
My current best theory about the downward trend is that Covid-19 and 2020 pent people up and got people to miss in-person socialization, 2021 sees a bump because everyone's happy to be able to hang out again, and then 2022 and 2023 have a downward trend because the excitement is wearing off. My second best theory is the previous meetup czar was better at most of this than I am and we lost a lot of skill in the handover.
I don't think you're doing worse as meetup czar! I think I've seen more public-facing czar activity from you, though maybe Claire was doing more behind the scenes.
It's not my first guess! But 2023 numbers are lower than 2021 numbers almost across the board, especially in the cities with the biggest groups. There's a lot of noise on a city to city level but something changed. Look at New York in the spreadsheet above; it's half the size every year since 2021. (Though Scott was there in 2021, which boosted things I expect.) Drops like that are the second biggest unanswered question I have about meetups.
Rhode Island is listed with a state heading of Providence instead of Rhode Island. It falls alphabetically the same place, and anyone who is looking for Rhode Island knows that Providence exists so chances of confusion are low, but I thought I’d mention it. :)
Hope all interested locals can make it to the Hong Kong event. We had something like 12-13 attendees last year and it was great to meet some of the smart people in the ACX community. Don't be shy about RSVPing :-)
Anyone know about rationalist-adjacent coworking/body doubling events in the Norcal Bay Area? I'm trying to get some projects done this spring outside of normal work hours.
Before I forget, I must note that the Newton meetup is NOT going to be at Farlow Park, because that's too far to the north (so too close to Cambridge/Boston). Instead, it's going to be at the *Newton Upper Falls Greenway*. I had resubmitted the meetup form and also emailed Skyler, but apparently he still published the old location anyways.
Here is the description I had put in my second submission:
"Mostly unstructured talking. Anywhere along the Upper Falls Greenway (between Easy St and the Charles River, paralleling Needham St) works, since I expect we'll be walking to and fro. However, newbies should show up **at the Easy St end** so we don't get lost. If there's demand for it we can also migrate to the footpath on the Needham side of the river as well (between Highland Ave and 2nd Ave). I plan on bringing my plush duck. I may or may not bring nametags. If I don't bring nametags, I'll ask everyone to introduce their names (internet names are ok for this meetup). Other types of people beyond rationalists (eg postrats, alignment researchers, predictors, EAs, etc.) are welcome!"
EDIT: noting that Skyler is the author this time, not Scott
Your Book Review: Consciousness And The Brain: A review of Stanislas Dehaene's book "Consciousness and the Brain", which explores the cognitive neuroscience of consciousness. The book discusses the differences between conscious and unconscious processing, the neural signatures of consciousness, and theories of consciousness such as the Global Neuronal Workspace.
a) According to Dehaene, what are the key differences between conscious and unconscious processing? What can the brain do without consciousness, and what requires consciousness?
b) How does Dehaene's approach to studying consciousness, which relies on subjective reports, differ from traditional methods in cognitive psychology? What are the strengths and limitations of this approach?
c) The book discusses several theories of consciousness, including the Global Neuronal Workspace, Integrated Information Theory, and the Multiple Drafts Model. How do these theories differ in their explanations of consciousness, and what evidence supports or challenges each theory?
How Should We Think About Race And "Lived Experience"?: An article discussing the complex relationship between race, genetics, and lived experience, using the case of Elizabeth Hoover, a professor who identified as Native American but was later found to have no Native American ancestry.
a) How does the case of Elizabeth Hoover challenge the idea that race is primarily a matter of "lived experience" rather than genetics? What are the implications of this case for how we define and think about racial identity?
b) The article discusses the potential problems with using genetics as the sole basis for determining racial identity, such as the risk of retroactively invalidating someone's life experiences and cultural contributions. What are the pros and cons of using genetics, lived experience, or a combination of factors to define race?
c) How might concerns about cultural appropriation, affirmative action, and the preservation of minority cultures influence how communities define and police racial boundaries? What are the potential unintended consequences of these practices, as illustrated by the Elizabeth Hoover case?
Walk & Talk: We usually have an hour-long walk and talk after the meeting starts. Two mini-malls with hot takeout food are readily accessible nearby. Search for Gelson's or Pavilions in the zip code 92660.
Share a Surprise: Tell the group about something unexpected that changed your perspective on the universe.
Future Direction Ideas: Contribute ideas for the group's future direction, including topics, meeting types, activities, etc.
Unless I'm missing something glaring geopolitcally, the word Vietnam is misspelled as Veitnam several times.
Fixed- I do apologize for missing that, I'm not sure where the transposition came from but that's an error.
Prague meetup FB page says Monday, April 22nd.
Fix the date, please, and add the Less wrong link if you want RSVP there.
I just emailed the organizer to check which one it should be- April 16th is the date they gave me in the form. If you're with the organizers, can you let Daniel or Jiri know to tell me which date is correct?
I am not in contact with the organizers, I have just attended a few times.
I assume the FB date to be more up to date but wait for their email to confirm.
They got back to me, the FB is correct. Post should be updated now.
What does it mean that the Channel Islands are listed separately to the UK? Is Scott finicky about the difference between Dependent Territories and the UK proper? Or is this a subtle signal of Norman revanchism?
Looking them up, the Channel Islands are not part of the UK:
"The Channel Islands fall into two separate self-governing bailiwicks, the Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Bailiwick of Jersey. Each of these is a British Crown Dependency, and neither is a part of the United Kingdom. They have been parts of the Duchy of Normandy since the 10th century, and Queen Elizabeth II was often referred to by her traditional and conventional title of Duke of Normandy. However, pursuant to the Treaty of Paris (1259), she governed in her right as The Queen (the "Crown in right of Jersey", and the "Crown in right of the république of the Bailiwick of Guernsey"), and not as the Duke. "
If we're going to be this finicky, the UK part should really be changed to GB, as there is no meet-up for Northern Ireland, all are being held on "the mainland" as some refer to it - most in England, one in Scotland.
Hi, Meetup Czar who compiled the list here. When I saw the volunteer for Channel Islands I asked the organizer if that was in the UK, they said no, and I usually assume the person who lives there knows better than I do. The alternative is even more Americanisms than you all already put up with
Why is it listed as “Europe (including UK)”? Europe is not the same as the European Union
I assume it’s less confusing for the Americans. I’m used to it, but that’s because I interact with them on a daily basis.
The inclusion of Russia and other non-EU countries without a comment would seem to indicate that the author was aware that the EU is not the same thing as Europe. So then I thought maybe it was because islands aren't part of Europe proper, but then I saw that Ireland was included without a comment, so 🤷
Is Britain geographically part of Europe? Yes.
Is Britain European? That's another matter entirely, see this 2001 piece from "The Guardian":
https://www.theguardian.com/weblogarticle/0,,194421,00.html
Even in Ireland, there's a tendency to identify more with "Boston than Berlin"
https://headstuff.org/topical/from-boston-to-berlin-a-new-irish-direction/
Same with Britain, it feels closer to the USA (and perhaps Canada and Australia as Commonwealth countries) than to Continental Europe due to common culture.
If we really want to have a fight over geographical versus spiritual, we could start in on the British Isles 😁
https://sketchplanations.com/great-britain-the-united-kingdom-and-the-british-isles-whats-the-difference
I wonder if the ancient Greeks had such discussions, saying Attica isn't really that European, considering all the ties to the colonies on the other side of the Aegean – or if this might be a uniquely British innovation.
On the other hand, it seems the Australians are embracing their European heritage by participating in the Eurovision. Perhaps some of the other colonies could also be brought back into the fold – a Celine Dion comeback for Canada would surely be a success.
As I recall, the Athenians were ethnically Ionian, like most of the islanders. But the rest of the mainland was largely ethnically Dorian, having come down and conquered or displaced the Ionians (except for the Athenians).
> "British Isles"
Deiseach currently fuming
Russia is an unprincipled guess between Asia and Europe that I sorted as Europe.
As an American, the UK is a little confusing in general and I don't have much space to add includings. Also though, see Deiseach's point below.
I'm not staking out a strong position here to be clear.
Yeah, I'd assume all the Russian meetups are in Europe anyway, so there's that. I did notice that both Turkish meetups are in Asia, however 🧐
tbh apriori i'd expect the third meetup to happen in novosibirsk (largest city in siberia), it's a huge academic hub
> the UK is a little confusing in general
As I commented last year (and also spoke to you in person about), the relevant layer of sorting for this listing is almost certainly *constituent countries* (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). There are also counties/shires/etc but no non-Brits would know about them off the top of their heads.
can we get stats on the number of participants at each meetup?
i wonder if one can derive the ACX-ness of a city by dividing the population with the number of participants by using the data
Scott gave the numbers for previous meetups in a recent post. The average number for non-Paris events in France is approximately two. This, along with the fact that my nearest meetup is a five hour drive away is why I'll be declining again this year. Oh, and of course I have a negative attitude towards rationalism..
> have a negative attitude towards rationalism..
As long as you can have a more or less rational discussion about it, that should be plenty interesting
In my experience most people at meetups do too!
This is variant of a fun question I keep trying to solve and will one day turn into a lovely blog post. The attendance numbers I have are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1awPp1g2YigcGXOqaLPb8ecED0kRra9Q_KRcG-uyHomA/edit#gid=0 Answering this and related questions is one of the main reasons I send out a survey after the meetups.
English speaking college towns or tech centres tend to do well. One wrinkle is that the smaller the city, the more likely people will come from farther away, which means there isn't a clear and obvious answer for the relevant population of the city.
thanks for the data Skyler, I won’t steal your blog post
I’m surprised of the downtrend in some cities though, I would have suspected the other way around
but the top cities definitely look as I would have expected it
Oh if you want to scoop me go ahead, I keep getting nerd-sniped and have no timeline on when that post is coming out.
My current best theory about the downward trend is that Covid-19 and 2020 pent people up and got people to miss in-person socialization, 2021 sees a bump because everyone's happy to be able to hang out again, and then 2022 and 2023 have a downward trend because the excitement is wearing off. My second best theory is the previous meetup czar was better at most of this than I am and we lost a lot of skill in the handover.
I don't think you're doing worse as meetup czar! I think I've seen more public-facing czar activity from you, though maybe Claire was doing more behind the scenes.
It's not my first guess! But 2023 numbers are lower than 2021 numbers almost across the board, especially in the cities with the biggest groups. There's a lot of noise on a city to city level but something changed. Look at New York in the spreadsheet above; it's half the size every year since 2021. (Though Scott was there in 2021, which boosted things I expect.) Drops like that are the second biggest unanswered question I have about meetups.
Rhode Island is listed with a state heading of Providence instead of Rhode Island. It falls alphabetically the same place, and anyone who is looking for Rhode Island knows that Providence exists so chances of confusion are low, but I thought I’d mention it. :)
Fixed. That's one of the weirder mistakes and I'm not quite sure what I did there, thanks for pointing it out.
Hope all interested locals can make it to the Hong Kong event. We had something like 12-13 attendees last year and it was great to meet some of the smart people in the ACX community. Don't be shy about RSVPing :-)
I have 8 RSVPs so far. I have space for more people!
Alex here, organizer for the Kansas City event. The start time posted here is 5a, but the actual start time is 5p.
Thanks, should be fixed.
If anyone else was wondering about the secrecy re the Fort Meade meetup, it’s an army installation that houses the NSA and others.
Anyone know about rationalist-adjacent coworking/body doubling events in the Norcal Bay Area? I'm trying to get some projects done this spring outside of normal work hours.
Before I forget, I must note that the Newton meetup is NOT going to be at Farlow Park, because that's too far to the north (so too close to Cambridge/Boston). Instead, it's going to be at the *Newton Upper Falls Greenway*. I had resubmitted the meetup form and also emailed Skyler, but apparently he still published the old location anyways.
Here is the description I had put in my second submission:
"Mostly unstructured talking. Anywhere along the Upper Falls Greenway (between Easy St and the Charles River, paralleling Needham St) works, since I expect we'll be walking to and fro. However, newbies should show up **at the Easy St end** so we don't get lost. If there's demand for it we can also migrate to the footpath on the Needham side of the river as well (between Highland Ave and 2nd Ave). I plan on bringing my plush duck. I may or may not bring nametags. If I don't bring nametags, I'll ask everyone to introduce their names (internet names are ok for this meetup). Other types of people beyond rationalists (eg postrats, alignment researchers, predictors, EAs, etc.) are welcome!"
EDIT: noting that Skyler is the author this time, not Scott
You are correct, sorry about that. Should be fixed here.
The San Jose link is pointing me to the LA rationality less wrong page.
. . . you are correct, fixed now.
Some mistakes I look at and wonder how that happened and stay mystified.
This is the Shanghai organiser. Skyler didn't mistype my email, I signed up for the wrong address, sorry!
That's one of those failure modes where there's not much I can do other than hope.
What's the right address? I can make sure it gets updated after the fact at least.
А так же я прошла 5 границ пешком и на электрике в 15 лет мы можешь ходить свободно с рождения
OC ACXLW Sat April 6 Consciousness, Race, and Lived Experience
Hello Folks!
We are excited to announce the 60th Orange County ACX/LW meetup, happening this Saturday and most Saturdays after that.
Host: Michael Michalchik
Email: michaelmichalchik@gmail.com (For questions or requests)
Location: 1970 Port Laurent Place, 92660
(949) 375-2045
Date: Saturday, April 6 2024
Time 2 pm
Conversation Starters:
Your Book Review: Consciousness And The Brain: A review of Stanislas Dehaene's book "Consciousness and the Brain", which explores the cognitive neuroscience of consciousness. The book discusses the differences between conscious and unconscious processing, the neural signatures of consciousness, and theories of consciousness such as the Global Neuronal Workspace.
Text link: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-book-review-consciousness-and
Audio link: https://podcastaddict.com/astral-codex-ten-podcast/episode/139738702
Questions for discussion:
a) According to Dehaene, what are the key differences between conscious and unconscious processing? What can the brain do without consciousness, and what requires consciousness?
b) How does Dehaene's approach to studying consciousness, which relies on subjective reports, differ from traditional methods in cognitive psychology? What are the strengths and limitations of this approach?
c) The book discusses several theories of consciousness, including the Global Neuronal Workspace, Integrated Information Theory, and the Multiple Drafts Model. How do these theories differ in their explanations of consciousness, and what evidence supports or challenges each theory?
How Should We Think About Race And "Lived Experience"?: An article discussing the complex relationship between race, genetics, and lived experience, using the case of Elizabeth Hoover, a professor who identified as Native American but was later found to have no Native American ancestry.
Text link: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/how-should-we-think-about-race-and
Audio link: https://podcastaddict.com/astral-codex-ten-podcast/episode/172964727
Questions for discussion:
a) How does the case of Elizabeth Hoover challenge the idea that race is primarily a matter of "lived experience" rather than genetics? What are the implications of this case for how we define and think about racial identity?
b) The article discusses the potential problems with using genetics as the sole basis for determining racial identity, such as the risk of retroactively invalidating someone's life experiences and cultural contributions. What are the pros and cons of using genetics, lived experience, or a combination of factors to define race?
c) How might concerns about cultural appropriation, affirmative action, and the preservation of minority cultures influence how communities define and police racial boundaries? What are the potential unintended consequences of these practices, as illustrated by the Elizabeth Hoover case?
Walk & Talk: We usually have an hour-long walk and talk after the meeting starts. Two mini-malls with hot takeout food are readily accessible nearby. Search for Gelson's or Pavilions in the zip code 92660.
Share a Surprise: Tell the group about something unexpected that changed your perspective on the universe.
Future Direction Ideas: Contribute ideas for the group's future direction, including topics, meeting types, activities, etc.
Looks like the Kyiv link is broken?
The Norfolk, VA meetup everywhere today at 3pm has been cancelled due to rain & not receiving any rsvps.